[tor-project] Localized mailing lists

[ilv at torproject.org]

On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 05:59:56PM -0400, George wrote:
> On 04/09/18 17:36, ilv at torproject.org wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> >> There's a few questions embedded in this proposal.
> >> 
> >> First, we have to differentiate between language- and region-based 
> >> lists, with regions being defined by geography and language.
> >> 
> >> As someone who has spawned more dead-on-arrival lists than most,
> >> I'm apprehensive about two things:
> >> 
> >> 1. creating lists for a perceived gap which ultimately die
> >> 
> >> 2. creating lists that siphon off discussion from existing lists
> >> 
> >> In terms of languages, I don't know enough about the critical mass,
> >> but I would assume there is more than enough of a base for an ES
> >> list, at the very minimum. And PT_BR is obviously another solid
> >> option.
> >> 
> >> The problems become a proliferation of lists that someone, say, who
> >> is an ES speaker *should* sub to. Now it's @global-south, plus the
> >> ES list, but then what about the regional question.
> >> 
> > 
> > I would prefer to open more spaces than to think what they *should*
> > do.
> > 
> >> Then the regional lists which should also be set with the
> >> respective language. But the regional list would likely be less of
> >> a Tor usage discussion than an organizing list, I'd guess.
> >> 
> >> Language lists are primarily meant to provide a channel for
> >> non-English speakers, to state the obvious.
> >> 
> >> I'm thinking very much out loud here. I worry about a proliferation
> >> of lists which take away from the main channels for discussion.
> >> 
> > 
> > The idea is to open space for discussions that are not currently
> > happening the main channels, such as other mailing lists or IRC
> > channels.
> > 
> >> I'm supportive of creating new language and/or regional lists, the 
> >> relevant people from those groups need to consider the utility in
> >> terms of audience and purpose.  Think technical discussion versus
> >> organizing. If there's an ES list, it should likely be
> >> software-focused, since it's the language issue that's being
> >> approached. It can assist ES-speakers in LATAM, EU and beyond. But
> >> a regional list (which should be designated with the respective
> >> language) is more likely an organizing tool.
> >> 
> >> An ES list that goes into the organizing specifics of a local event
> >> in LATAM will only make ES speakers not from the region yawn.
> >> 
> >> Sorry if I seem to be dancing around the issue here. I think 
> >> articulating "for whom" and "about what" for a list is vital. Dead
> >> lists help no one, and lists that just put more on the plate of a
> >> few Tor people need to be avoided.
> >> 
> >> Maybe it makes sense to start with an ES list and see how it goes?
> >> 
> > 
> > Yes, thanks for all the feedback. I think we could perfectly use a
> > localized list as a support, discussion and organizing tool. But we
> > really don't know if we don't try, so let's see how it goes :)
> > 
> >> Mailing lists are often chicken-and-egg problems... if you don't
> >> have the list, you don't recognize there's an audience.
> >> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 04/06/2018 07:10 AM, Vasilis wrote:
> >>>>> Since the global-south name is horrible and we have never
> >>>>> gone into the process of changing I guess it will make sense
> >>>>> to rename the list (and the IRC channe) and then announce it
> >>>>> to the world as the LATAM Tor mailing list?
> >>>> I agree that the name "global-south" is suboptimal, but we've
> >>>> had multiple conversations about this (I think you've been
> >>>> there for at least a couple of them), most recently discussions
> >>>> in Rome, where the rough consensus was that the name is
> >>>> problematic but less problematic than other choices and there
> >>>> isn't a better option that's widely recognized. So it's not
> >>>> exactly true that no one has gone into the process of changing
> >>>> it...it's been discussed in every meeting I've been in related
> >>>> to global south initiatives.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Am I incorrect to think that @global-south list is really LATAM
> >> anyways?
> >> 
> >> We should probably move towards a LATAM list to replace
> >> @global-south. It *seems* to be what the list is in practice.  And
> >> maybe sticking to some combination of language- and region-specific
> >> lists is the right direction.
> >> 
> >> g
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > Saludos.
> 
> Maybe an operational way to start this would be to do a blog post about
> the specific list being launched?  Then getting it tweeted, circulated
> in the appropriate language sites, etc?
> 
> It would be one way to conjure up interest...
> 

Very good idea, thanks. I'm sure we can manage to do something like this.

--i
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