[tor-teachers] tor-teachers Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4

[tortuga at tutanota.de]

Good morning,

I'm still learning about Tor and online data protection, and only recently 
signed up for this mailing list. I was wondering where this adage comes from:

"I'm reminded the adage "VPN before Tor, FBI at the door.""

I recently started using a VPN service (VyprVPN currently, though I have 
tried Cryptostorm and Tunnelbear as well), and am now experimenting with 
using a Tor browser both on my Android phone as well as on my laptop (dual 
Linux Mint/Windows 7).

While I presume that using the Tor network raises alarms for anyone 
monitoring traffic (it must mean you have something to hide, right?), I was 
assuming that it would be a good idea to use both Tor AND a VPN service. So 
that any lost packages would still be within the VPN. But this adage seems to 
say that it is actually a bad idea to do both? Why?

Would you mind clarifying this a little please?

Many thanks in advance,
Erik


22. Jan 2016 13:00 by tor-teachers-request at lists.torproject.org:


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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Surveillance, Privacy, Networks and Encryption v2
>       (Kenneth Freeman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:08:21 -0700
> From: Kenneth Freeman <> kencf0618 at riseup.net> >
> To: List to be used by Tor teachers and trainers to build a
> 	"community," circulate training materials and get feedback
> 	<> tor-teachers at lists.torproject.org> >
> Subject: Re: [tor-teachers] Surveillance, Privacy, Networks and
> 	Encryption v2
> Message-ID: <> 56A172F5.2020004 at riseup.net> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
>
> On 01/21/2016 05:40 AM, Hugo Maxwell Connery wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks to some very helpful comments by Paul Syverson I offer
>> a second, much improved version of this document.
>>
>> Its the same "conversational" style providing a ground up
>> description of the surveillance and anonymity problem for
>> a low tech audience with a reasonably aware teacher.  This
>> includes how proxies and VPNs provide only partial solutions
>> to these problems and how Tor provides a much better solution.
>>
>> I also present a collection of general attacks against Tor
>> and briefly show the challenges that they entail.  Again,
>> this is as 'no-tech' as possible.
>
> I'm reminded the adage "VPN before Tor, FBI at the door."
>
> Speaking of which, I've had the opportunity recently to hear an FBI
> special agent speak at a private function, and believe me, if you ever
> have an opportunity to speak to an FBI special agent without the need
> for an attorney to represent you, grab it. Their public input in and of
> itself is very interesting on several levels...
>
> The man said that Tor is a very good product, and (admittedly
> anecdotally) that he encounters it, if only tangentially, in 20% of his
> investigations, mostly terrorism investigations.
>
> Tor itself gives talks to law enforcement agencies; it behoves all
> parties involved to know the drill, savvy? OODA-loop stuff.
>
>
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