[tor-talk] Misogyny on tor-talk is an existential threat to Tor

[Mirimir]

On 09/15/2014 10:29 AM, Ted Smith wrote:
> This thread is a good example of basic human rights for women being
> neutrally debated on tor-talk, by men.

That's a mischaracterization. Only one poster has defended the site. If
I had the skills and resources, I'd take it down. Maybe I'll take a
shot, as a learning experience.

> While this is a subject that most if not all men can discuss neutrally,
> it's a much more personal topic for most women, and seeing this
> "discussed" (or rather: seeing the sexual assault of women defended) on
> this list can polarize people against the Tor project.

Again, there's been just one defender, who seems trollish. While I did
comment on the propriety of the Tor Project taking action against the
site, I did not mean to (and do not) defend the site.

> Tor as a technology and community helps women and humans far more than
> it hurts them, but some hidden services I won't contribute further to
> their popularity by naming make compelling news stories, and quotes from
> tor-talk are easily misquoted as official statements of the Tor project.

That's a risk, but stifling discussion isn't the answer.

> Since Tor's infrastructure relies entirely on volunteer contributions,
> this makes discussion of the morality of some hidden services an
> existential threat to Tor. These discussions should not be tolerated on
> this or other Tor Project mailing lists. There are plenty of other
> places to have those discussions, but these lists are not an appropriate
> venue.

If there is any "existential threat to Tor", it would be from the site,
and not from it's discussion on tor-talk. I do worry that this site is
especially dangerous, for two reasons. It appeals to a relatively large
audience of peripubescent jerks. And its culture encourages real world
action (harassing victims and their families, friends, employers, and so
on) that attracts public attention.

> The Tor Project could actively kill these threads, and in my opinion
> should, but if they disagree, I hope that others on this list who agree
> with some or all of my position help by *never responding* to such
> discussions.

While it's rarely appropriate to feed trolls, refusing to discuss evil
doesn't make it go away.

> Please do your best to ensure that we can build a world without
> surveillance, without panopticon, and with the basic human right to
> privacy defended and respected by technology and people.

I totally agree.

<SNIP>