[tor-talk] Tor's reputation problem with pedo, some easy steps the community could take

[Gregory Disney]

Related to the anarchism comment above.


On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Gregory Disney <gregory.disney at owasp.org>wrote:

> I think Tor Project does follow Mihkal Bakunin principles on Freedom...
> From Revolutionary Catechism:
> III. Freedom is the absolute right of every adult man and woman to seek no
> other sanction for their acts than their own conscience and their own
> reason, being responsible first to themselves and then to the society which
> they have *voluntarily *accepted.
>
> IV. It is not true that the freedom of one man is limited by that of other
> men. Man is really free to the extent that his freedom, fully acknowledged
> and mirrored by the free consent of his fellowmen, finds confirmation and
> expansion in their liberty. Man is truly free only among equally free men;
> the slavery of even one human being violates humanity and negates the
> freedom of all.
>
> V. The *freedom *of each is therefore realizable only in the equality of
> all. The realization of freedom through equality, in principle and in fact,
> is *justice.*
>
> VI. If there is one fundamental principle of human morality, *it is
> freedom*. To respect the freedom of your fellowman *is duty; *to love,
> help, and serve him is *virtue.*
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:59 PM, NoName <antispam06 at sent.at> wrote:
>
>> On 17.05.2013 19:50, David Vorick wrote:
>>
>>> Except I think that in this case Tor is a bit more like a gun than a
>>> screw
>>> driver. The good purposes aren't always obvious and the nefarious
>>> purposes
>>> are on the forefront of public attention a lot more. It's not a perfect
>>> analogy but I think you see what I'm getting at.
>>>
>>
>> It's amusing to see this over and over. And it's only a byproduct of how
>> our minds and culture perceive things. It's always about good ol' times and
>> about how the new things could sake the foundations of society to the point
>> of breaking it. Than it becomes normal and people believe things were
>> always like that.
>>
>> Take the steam engine. It was the devil's work. Mixing fire and water!
>> That was against the creation itself. But it turned out to be quite
>> practical. The Internet in general isn't any different. Only that banks
>> have discovered they can fire half the tellers by launching Internet
>> banking. So it was good business. And their short opening hours became
>> 24/7. Is Internet bad? No! Of course not! No pedo would have the nerve to
>> use the Internet. Why? Because banks and governments do.
>>
>> Was the steam engine used by the bad guys? Of course. Most of the early
>> adopters were probably under the broad classification of bad guys. Because
>> serfs weren't even allowed to travel in some countries. And noble men were
>> not so eager to spend a lot of money on that. But generic bad guys were
>> ready to spend a pretty penny to gain some speed and confort. Guess what!
>> Two centuries after, bad guys still use mass transportation. Most of them.
>>
>> What about the phone? It was hard to get. It was expensive. In a poor
>> neighbourhood was cheaper to send some child running. For longer distances
>> there was the postal service. And for a quick delivery there was the
>> telegraph. And all of them had a good network that could reach places where
>> there was no phone line a century later. But creative bad guys saw the
>> potential and started using it. For that you now have the so called lawful
>> interception. Because most bad guys were using the phone. And they were
>> using it more than the student son calling his momma. Mobile phones? So
>> large they needed a car to make them portable? The G1. The bad guys had
>> those too. And they were using them to coordonate and organise. Gee! The
>> same end of the world scenario stupid press announces for Twitter. Only
>> those radio phones were easy to intercept. Did the bad guys drop them? Heck
>> no! They started using code words.
>>
>> 3d printers? Well, they can make guns! Big guns! That kill innocent
>> people. Have you noticed the dead are always innocent? Even that b****
>> Tatcher was an angel. Same went for bittorrent. Now they are using it to
>> push the distribution of movies to digital cinemas, to infect your PC with
>> paid closed source software. So today not all torrents are criminal. And
>> ISPs don't block bt ports anymore. Wait a bit for the 3d printers. When
>> Lego would distribute its silly toys by making you pay for the plastic too
>> it would be a nice thing abused by some script kiddies.
>>
>>
>>
>>  The purpose of Tor is to liberate people from state control and
>>> censorship.
>>> Informally, the purpose of Tor is to help people break rules. We support
>>> Tor because we want oppressive rules to be broken but ultimately it's an
>>> anarchist tool, and that's something that's not going to sit well with
>>> the
>>> public.
>>>
>>
>> Don't be such a child!
>>
>> State control? How about ISP control? How about corporate control? How
>> about abusive partners or parents? In those countries called not–free by
>> the corporate media children walk around free. They even have to work and
>> be treated as adults from an early age. Even when the village is next to
>> the minefield they go working in the morning and return home at night. And
>> that's no video game. At the same time, in the free world as the press
>> likes to intelectually masturbate children are under house arrest. They are
>> under total control. Want to chat with your 4th grade colleague to prepare
>> the homework? Want to use that new and wonderful skill of writing? Now get
>> adult supervision! Under 13 or 17 or 18 or 21? Your account can be
>> terminated. Parents install filtering software and want access to social
>> media accounts and passworded diaries. What could seem exagerated for 1984
>> is daily life for some kids in the industrialised world.
>>
>> The purpose of Tor is not to break rules. Is to offer privacy. And guess
>> what? Most private people don't break any rules.
>>
>> Oppresive rules are not broken by Tor. See, Even FBI and DEA are using it.
>>
>> And anarchism is not about that. Good timing with grafitti can be much
>> more valuable.
>>
>> But it's funny that you use the term public, after all that flag waving.
>> Most people I've met use the term public or masses as a way of putting
>> themselves above the crowds.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
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>>
>
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