[tor-talk] Iran cracks down on web dissident technology

[Joe Btfsplk]

1st, thanks for the refresher, Paul.  I'll bet most users didn't know 
Tor was started by the NRL.  Unfortunately, for many, that won't ease 
their minds much.

I don't have the knowledge & skills to check Tor's source code & bet 
well > 90% of users don't either.
I know (knew) my comments on Tor being funded (or started) by any Fed 
organization would not be well received.  Neither were the handful of 
people w/ inside knowledge after 9-11 attacks, shouting there was no 
justification in attacking Iraq.  They were shouted down & quickly 
labeled as unpatriotic.  Even today, surveys show a significant percent 
of people still believe Iraq was responsible for 9-11 attacks.  "Don't 
confuse me w/ facts - I've already made up my mind."

Again, WHY would Sam develop or fund technology that would make it 
possible for * their enemies *  to communicate anonymously and 
privately, possibly allowing them to plot against him, with ABSOLUTELY 
no way to decipher that communication?

It's a serious question.  Please save the "check the source code 
yourself" comments.  Open source code means literally nothing.  Did it 
mean anything when Iraq cracked down on Tor users?  Researchers often 
show that.  What makes this project different than other govt funded 
projects?  (This seems like the, "It'll never happen here / to us" 
mentality).

It * IS * happening to us in pretty much every aspect of citizens' 
privacy.  That's no secret.  What makes Tor any different?   If one govt 
can figure out how to identify Tor traffic, so can others.  Above ALL 
else, govts NEVER reveal the full extent of their intelligence 
capability.  That would be foolish.

I've never known Sam to get involved in, or fund something - especially 
like this - * w/o wanting something in return.*  Ever.  WHETHER or not 
they make known, to anyone, what they want or intend to do.  It's been 
shown for over 50 - 60 yrs (probably much longer) that even people in 
charge of entire govt projects (or govt funded ones), often don't know 
the  *full* extent of what's being done w/ the research, technology, 
info, etc.  If you want to ignore history, go ahead.



On 3/20/2011 11:46 PM, Paul Syverson wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:04:45PM -0500, Edward Langenback wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>>
>> Joe Btfsplk wrote:
>>> On 3/20/2011 5:08 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8388484/Iran-cracks-down-on-web-dissident-technology.html
>>>>
>>>> Iran cracks down on web dissident technology...
>>>>
>>>> ...  The value of ???internet freedom??? technologies to US
>>>> foreign policy has not gone unnoticed in Washington: the Tor Project???s arms
>>>> race with Iranian authorities is_funded in part by grants from both the
>>>> Department of Defense and the State Department_.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> tor-talk mailing list
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>>> You've GOT to be kidding.  Tell me that's a mistake.  Tor Project,
>>> dedicated to privacy&  anonymity, takes $ from DoD&  Sam?  While the US
>>> spies on it's citizens, unconstitutionally?  That's rich.
>>> Honestly, this enlightenment will make me reconsider ever using Tor for
>>> anything I don't want sent directly to DC.  It's like trusting car
>>> magazines' reviews that get their advertising $ from car manufacturers.
>>> There is no way the fed is going to give $ to any "privacy" organization
>>> w/o wanting something (cough, back door) in return.  Every ISP has been
>>> forced into violating users' privacy.  Why would Tor project, after
>>> taking $ from Sam, be any different?  OK users, go ahead&  stick your
>>> head in the sand.
>>>
>>> EVEN if it's not true, for me, Tor project has lost a good deal of its
>>> credibility through its associations.  Of course, no government would
>>> ever lie&  neither would a company (AT&T, Ford, Google, R.J. Reynolds...).
>> If I'm not mistaken, not only has TOR had at least some government /
>> DOD funding from the start, the original project was started by the
>> military.
>>
> People seem to need a periodic refresher on this.
> I will just state the long public and published facts.
> Interpret them as you like. You can read more details at
> http://www.onion-router.net/History.html
> but here's a quick summary:
>
> I invented onion routing at NRL with David Goldschlag and Mike Reed in
> 1995-96 as a US Naval Research Laboratory project with initial funding
> from ONR. All of us were NRL employees at the time. Our first deployed
> system was in 1996 and source code for that system was distributed
> later that year. (Code was entirely US government work by US
> government employees, so not subject to copyright.)
>
> As part of a later NRL project, I created the version of onion routing
> that became known as Tor along with Roger Dingledine and Nick
> Mathewson starting in 2002. I have been an NRL employee throughout all
> this.  Roger and Nick were contractors working on my project. NRL
> projects funded by ONR and DARPA were the only funding they had to
> work on Tor until 2004. The first publicly deployed Tor network was in
> 2003, which was also when the source code was made available and
> publicly licensed under the MIT license.  The first funding Roger and
> Nick got to work on Tor that was other than as part of an NRL project
> was from the EFF starting in 2004.
>
> Tor got funding from a variety of sources after that, including several
> U.S. government projects, both before and since becoming a US 501 (c)(3)
> nonprofit. You can find a summary at
> https://torproject.org/about/sponsors.html.en
>
> HTH,
> Paul
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