[tor-talk] "If you have access to certain tools, you can completely ignore Tor."

[Joe Btfsplk]

On 12/19/2011 11:30 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
> On 12/19/2011 08:59 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
>>
>> https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#Backdoor. If we're forced
>> to put one in someday, we'll make it obvious and loud that it is so.
>> The world will be in a sad state if this comes true. A forced backdoor
>> in Tor will be the least of your problems.
I applaud this concept.  I'm sure that would be the intent of those 
working w/ Tor Project.  Unfortunately, the state of affairs in world 
gov'ts security "laws" is such that many gov'ts simply have to claim 
that something is "vital to national security," & it immediately becomes 
very secretive.  We are already there, Andrew.  Don't need "no stinking 
warrant" or a reason.  Yes, someone could blow the whistle on a forced 
backdoor, or anything else - BUT they likely could face prosecution, 
trumped up charges or plain old governmental personal sabotage.  Just 
read news stories.  For ANY organization facing pressure from a gov't, 
it'd come down to whether they were willing to sacrifice their freedom 
(or at least sanity) for themselves & family.  Think this is conspiracy 
theory?  This type of behavior of diff gov'ts world wide is well 
documented ALL throughout recorded history.

I'm not sure why the doubt about gov'ts forcing backdoors.  It's already 
happened in other cases.

> No Backdoors. No bugdoors. No so-called "lawful interception" systems. 
> As another person working on Tor - I'll be more direct and less 
> ambiguous: If anyone ever even *tries* to force us to insert a 
> backdoor, we'd tell the world. We won't every compromise the security 
> of Tor and we will never insert a backdoor. Never. We must reject 
> these so-called "compromises" for so-called "lawful interception" and 
> we must fight against their deployment everywhere. They are harmful to 
> everyone - including those that use them legitimately - just ask the 
> Greek phone operator who was suicided after the Great Greek Vodafone 
> Backdoor was found.
Agreed.  But, it's a LONG, uphill battle.  Correct - people w/ damaging 
knowledge often disappear, "commit suicide" or are completely 
discredited by intense propaganda.  Also, it's a fact that any advanced 
gov't is going to take every step to prevent its real or perceived 
enemies from being able to freely & anonymously plot & exchange 
information.  Isn't that part of their function?  Gov'ts around the 
world already monitor a huge amt of open internet activity & email.  
Most people & "dumber" state enemies have become oblivious to this 
fact.  I can't imagine gov'ts being so stupid & negligent to just leave  
*anything * like Tor alone, whether anyone outside of a gov't knows 
about it or not.

These 2 links (nothing to do w/ Tor), could be the tip of the iceberg:
http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Anti-virus-software-fails-to-deal-with-government-trojan-1360015.html
  http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/CCC-cracks-government-trojan-1357755.html