[tor-relays] Interrogated by Finnish police for alleged idendity crimes, fraud and attempts of fraud

Mon Oct 31 22:16:53 UTC 2016

Hi,

With the 3 big exit nodes I had in France (about 30MB/s in both 
direction for each of them), I got called by police a lot of time (may 
be 10 times approximately ? I do not really count anymore) on 
investigations about misdeed that was committed from IP addresses of my 
Tor relays (95.130.9.190 and 95.130.9.89 mainly, at Digicube, not 
running anymore since June, 2015). No call about the Online.net one 
(62.210.206.25, now Relay only since January, 2015), which was as big as 
the 2 others and Exit too, but the ISP is well known as servers and 
website big provider in France so I guess they realize it's an exit node 
before calling me. The "facts" were also, most of the time, fraud and 
attempts of fraud but also slander one time.

I was most of the time called as suspect because IP are related to my 
name (because I was leasing those servers), as for a home connection in 
their point of view (not aware that those IP are dedicated servers IP). 
Then I simply explain this in appropriate terms. After some times, 
depending on the agent, for new investigations I'm sometimes "heard" as 
witness. And most of the time the meeting is fine.

Each time, I explain that my servers are rented in my name, and that I 
use them for volunteer participation to a free proxies and VPN network 
called Tor. I then give some details and explanations about what is Tor, 
who created it, what are the goals of the project (about protection of 
expression in bad countries and censorship avoidance, by accessing the 
same Internet that others do, pricacy protection too), and yes, the 
misuses... and that these are discouraging misuse and it is not the 
reason why we participate in this network (far from it !). Then I give 
the IP of those servers (and one of them is the reason why they called 
me). And I explain that they are computers with a very fast bandwidth, 
located in datacenters (Rennes, Vitry...) that can be accessed and 
configured remotely, like a remote desktop.

When they ask the question about logs and how to find the author of the 
fact, my answer is that (unfortunately in that case), Tor is designed as 
it's not possible for anybody to find who is the IP address from where 
the traffic originated. It's very secure for those who need to use it. 
Of course I tell them that if they have suspects in the entourage of the 
victim, they can check if one of them was connected to the Tor network 
at the time of the "fact" but as me and others people are using Tor for 
online privacy without any intention of misuse against anybody, using 
Tor is not a proof of misuse and is most of the time not done for bad 
intention. Of course some questioning about a suspect using Tor at the 
same hour would be rightful in this particular situation, anyway (like I 
was questioned).

All time I also come with a sheet of paper explaining Tor a little bit 
deeply, what are the motivation of the teams and people behind this 
project, (even in front of misuses that we are, of course, not proud of 
having on the Tor network, even if without the Tor network, those 
misuses would have been done by another way). In France I

Of course sometimes the agent is not very happy about the Tor Network as 
the investigations is likely to fail because of the Tor Network 
efficiency. When the misuse is real and obviously bad, nobody can be 
happy of it !

In all those cases, my words are honest and true; as we shouldn't be 
ashamed of participating to projects aiming to a better word and more 
freedom, but shouldn't be happy of misuses, my personal preference is to 
be understanding and true. I also tell them that I'm participating, with 
my computers, to others scientific projects like World Community Grid 
(explaining it's about cancer research and a lot of others subjects) : 
It can be seen as "not related" but it is, as that's the way we are 
volunteers to the Tor Network !

Here's for my feedback ! It's very personal of course, I hope nobody 
would copy it without feeling it :) I'm just expressing my own feeling 
on those situations, if it can help everybody to better understand those 
cases.

Best regards !

Julien ROBIN

On 31/10/2016 14:25, Juuso Lapinlampi wrote:
> Putting the word out: I was interrogated by the Finnish police today for
> multiple alleged counts (15+) of identity crimes, fraud and attempts of
> fraud. The invitation letter to be interrogated was sent out on
> 2016-10-21 and received by me on 2016-10-25. Today is 2016-10-31.
>
> The police suspects me because of an "IP-address assigned to my name",
> which I can't confirm or deny to have a relation to me. As a suspect, I
> was not told what this aclaimed IP-address was on a specific date to my
> knowledge. It is only speculation if these allegations wrongly against
> me have something to do with my relation with the Tor community or
> activism about digital rights online.
>
> Pending ongoing investigation, I am not allowed by law to share more
> specific details about to the investigation. I'd be glad to reveal more
> details about the case once the investigation is over and share/hear how
> I became a suspect, once I know about it. (Note that my story is at
> least slightly opinionated.)
>
> I had a witness with me and I feel like my rights were being violated
> during the interrogation. The officer (not to be named publicly in
> respect for privacy) didn't want to allow me to write down their badge
> number by taking the badge away from me while trying to write down the
> numbers. The officer looked slightly anxious.
>
> After refusing to comment on few questions (to which I have a legal
> right as a suspect), soon after me and my belongings with me were
> searched for aclaimed "security reasons" and "making sure I'm not
> recording this interrogation (with a phone)". I'll let you decide on the
> implications on unwarranted searches and individual legal protection.
> (See supreme court decision KKO:1990:36.)
>
> I audibly and multiple times in calm manner protested to not consent to
> searches, but alas it happened against my will without being suspected
> of wrongdoing at the police station in front of my witness. I didn't
> physically resist but also didn't voluntarily help the officer.
>
> The officer asked me inappropriate questions which were not related to
> the investigation. I was asked about my previous involvement with the
> police, how much I knew about the law and unsolicited advice about how
> "it will be easier for me if I talked". I demanded the officer to write
> down every question since the beginning of interrogation to the
> interrogation minutes, including the inappropriate ones, but the officer
> refused, trying to make up a fake reason how they were "irrelevant".
>
> The officer raised their voice once or twice during the 45 minutes of
> interrogation, apparently angry that I would not "make a confession" or
> "help out and tell more" to prove innocence. Confronting the officer
> again with a simple question "am I a suspect or a witness" to confirm my
> position, I was confirmed again that I was a suspect in the case. Subtly
> reminding that "I have my rights" that should be respected, the officer
> replied among the lines of "I have my rights too" with disrespect.
>
> After the interrogation minutes did not rightfully represent what was
> actually questioned, the only sensible thing to me was to not sign the
> minutes. The officer after the officer made threatening claims about how
> I "would be going to court" over this, but didn't spend too much effort
> on trying to get my signature.
>
> Once the interrogation was concluded, the officer made an unsolicited
> comment of "gladly not seeing people like [me] often". I told that I
> would be in contact with my lawyers.
>
> I am glad that I was not detained in a cell or arrested, which in my
> opinion I can likely attribute to having a witness with me. Looking back
> at what just happened at the police station, I should have demanded a
> lawyer immediately to the interrogation after having my rights violated,
> but I'm relying on my witness for now to make a testimony if necessary.
>
> I repeat that I absolutely deny being guilty of any suspected crimes. Be
> safe out there, tor-relays@ and all. (I have legal support behind me and
> have never been particularly worried about the investigation or outcome
> of this case.)
>
> Proof of invitation letter:
> https://wubthecaptain.eu/files/legal/2016-10-21-alleged-fraud-identity-crime.jpg
> _______________________________________________
> tor-relays mailing list
> tor-relays at lists.torproject.org
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays