[tor-project] Localized mailing lists

[gus]

Hi, 

Em Fri, Apr 06, 2018 at 03:30:00PM +0000, George escreveu:
> Shari Steele:
> > I also love this idea!
> > Shari
> 
> reordering inline posting below...
> 
> > 
> >> On Apr 6, 2018, at 7:26 AM, Alison Macrina <alison at torproject.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Signed PGP part
> >> I think this is a great idea y espero poder hablar español contigo!
> >> Thanks for the proposal Isra.
> >>
> >> I think Isa is right that the global-south list should remain as it is
> >> and Isra's ES-lang list is the right place for this new initiative.
> 
> There's a few questions embedded in this proposal.
> 
> First, we have to differentiate between language- and region-based
> lists, with regions being defined by geography and language.
> 
> As someone who has spawned more dead-on-arrival lists than most, I'm
> apprehensive about two things:
> 
> 1. creating lists for a perceived gap which ultimately die
> 
> 2. creating lists that siphon off discussion from existing lists
> 
> In terms of languages, I don't know enough about the critical mass, but
> I would assume there is more than enough of a base for an ES list, at
> the very minimum. And PT_BR is obviously another solid option.
> 
> The problems become a proliferation of lists that someone, say, who is
> an ES speaker *should* sub to. Now it's @global-south, plus the ES list,
> but then what about the regional question.
> 
> Then the regional lists which should also be set with the respective
> language. But the regional list would likely be less of a Tor usage
> discussion than an organizing list, I'd guess.
> 
> Language lists are primarily meant to provide a channel for non-English
> speakers, to state the obvious.
> 
> I'm thinking very much out loud here. I worry about a proliferation of
> lists which take away from the main channels for discussion.
> 
> I'm supportive of creating new language and/or regional lists, the
> relevant people from those groups need to consider the utility in terms
> of audience and purpose.  Think technical discussion versus organizing.
> If there's an ES list, it should likely be software-focused, since it's
> the language issue that's being approached. It can assist ES-speakers in
> LATAM, EU and beyond. But a regional list (which should be designated
> with the respective language) is more likely an organizing tool.
>

I think the geographic and the language approach can work together and
aren't competitive: one or other.
 
> An ES list that goes into the organizing specifics of a local event in
> LATAM will only make ES speakers not from the region yawn.
> 
> Sorry if I seem to be dancing around the issue here. I think
> articulating "for whom" and "about what" for a list is vital. Dead lists
> help no one, and lists that just put more on the plate of a few Tor
> people need to be avoided.
> 
> Maybe it makes sense to start with an ES list and see how it goes?
> 
> Mailing lists are often chicken-and-egg problems... if you don't have
> the list, you don't recognize there's an audience.
> 
> >>
> >> On 04/06/2018 07:10 AM, Vasilis wrote:
> >>> Since the global-south name is horrible and we have never gone into
> >>> the process of changing I guess it will make sense to rename the
> >>> list (and the IRC channe) and then announce it to the world as the
> >>> LATAM Tor mailing list?
> >> I agree that the name "global-south" is suboptimal, but we've had
> >> multiple conversations about this (I think you've been there for at
> >> least a couple of them), most recently discussions in Rome, where the
> >> rough consensus was that the name is problematic but less problematic
> >> than other choices and there isn't a better option that's widely
> >> recognized. So it's not exactly true that no one has gone into the
> >> process of changing it...it's been discussed in every meeting I've
> >> been in related to global south initiatives.
> 
> 
> Am I incorrect to think that @global-south list is really LATAM anyways?

At the moment, I'd say yes, it's almost majority LATAM. But,

> We should probably move towards a LATAM list to replace @global-south.
> It *seems* to be what the list is in practice.  And maybe sticking to
> some combination of language- and region-specific lists is the right
> direction.

I think the GS initiative started well and actively engaged LATAM
community.

To take away Global-south and replace only with LATAM, is a
bad idea; what we are going to do with the ppl that aren't from LATAM in
the mailing list?

We need to think what's the next part of GS that we need/want
to engage. It's part of this year roadmap to move to others GS-regions? 

I'd go step by step: open first the new lang based mailing list and then go
to the new region/latam thing.

cheers,
gus

-- 
PGP: 427F 2D71 7664 D215 378C B412 8BDC 87FB 7215 E189 
XMPP/OTR: 62f58f8062da3e48e0aa076f20807ecb1488658e
https://gus.computer/